… And Now For Something Completely Controversial

Posted: May 8, 2009 in Just Me, Just Stuff
Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

I’ve been wanting to write about this for awhile but other things took it place. Now that I have about an hour with nothing to do but wait for the weekend to get here, NOW kinda seems like the moment!

So let’s talk about homosexuality and gay marriage.

Actually, I’ll talk and you read .. it you want to. If not, that’s fine but just let me state one think for the record:

These are my views. These are my opinions. This is my blog and the WordPress user’s agreement tell me that I can say whatever I want.. unless they tell me not too or it’s SO BLATANTLY illegal.

So if you don’t agree that’s cool.. we can agree to disagree.. we can have a healthy, productive exchange for ideas, theories, beliefs, etc. I truly am open minded and will give anyone an opportunity to challenge my thoughts as long as they are 1) respectful and 2) they allow me to rebut.

NOTE: I think it’s hysterical that the very people who preach peace, love and tolerance are the same one’s who want to fire bomb my house and call me names.

Okay .. so let’s get on with it.

I believe that people are NOT born gay however I do NOT believe that they choose to be gay either. Can’t have it both ways, can I? Well, yea.. I can.

Because what I believe is that something happened to a homosexual person in childhood or infanthood or during a time when a formidable memory could not absorbed or the strength of the mind’s defenses blocked it out.

I’ve come to that believe because every gay and lesbian I know personally :: some of whom I’ve been friends with from way back in the crib :: was exposed to things that from a psychological perspective would validate their sexuality.

I’ll give you a few examples:

GAY MAN #1: I grew up with him. Have been friends with him for close to 40 years. His mother was a very domineering woman. Very rough. Very abrasive. His father, the complete opposite.. very mellow, very gentle, very kind. GM#1 was an only child.. a child that his mother constantly said she didn’t want.. a child that his father always told him he prayed for. I remember times when his mother would go after GM#1 with a belt and when his father would intervene, go after the father with the belt too. And that was out on the street! I can imagine what happened behind closed doors. So is it any wonder that GM#1 gravitated towards men?

GAY MAN #2: This one is one of my ex-brother in laws. He was the youngest child born of 6 and was conceived during the time his mother was still  breast – feeding the 5th child :: who happens to be my ex. Actually, that could explain why HE was the way he was.. losing nutrients because of his mother?s pregnancy. Blah.. whatever :: . My ex-father in law  was a former marine and a no nonsense person. He got up, went to work, came home and expected things to be the way he wanted them to be. He didn’t tolerate excuses .. didn’t promote laziness or stupidity. He hunted whenever he can and was your typical former Golden Glove Boxing Man’s Man.

GM#2 had a sensitive, compassionate nature and would become upset when his father would bring home a deer carcass or a string of rabbits for dinner. His father would call him a pussy and mock him. GM#2 was creative and loved music and the arts. When he would write something or draw something his father couldn’t be bothered to acknowledge it. GM#2 wanted to spend time with his dad but unless he wanted to go hunting or fishing, his father wasn’t going to give up his time .. give up doing what HE wanted to do .. subsequently, GM#2 got involved in drugs. Hard Core stuff and male prostitution. He’s been living with the same guy now for probably 20 years.. a guy who is 35 years older then he is.

LW#1: She is the daughter of my best friend born when we were 15 years old. My girlfriends stict catholic parents booted their pregnant daughter out on the street where .. seriously.. if it wasn’t for the kindness of strangers who knows what would have happened to her. My girlfriend did well for herself and provided for her daughter but when the ages flipped, and her daughter was 15 and my girlfriend hit her 30’s.. she tried to make up for lost time. I think she felt that that since her daughter was old enough to tend to herself she had the opportunity to “live a life” Subsequently she found love in all the wrong places with all the wrong men and she left her kid alone .. sometimes for weekend and sometimes for weeks and there were times that the kid showed up on my doorstep wanting to be near people. At first, her mother thought that her bringing home girls and making out with them on the couch was an act of defiance on the daughters part. And you know what, along with the goth look, ripped up clothes and raccoon eyes, it may have been. But somewhere along the line the daughter became who she became and it became what she wanted.

LG#2: This was a girl I went to college with who is still with the same woman she was with when we graduated. I don’t know much of the details of her past but I do know that she had been sexually abused by her biological father from the ages of 2 to 5.. when her mother found out and left with her. Fast forward a few years .. her mother remarried.. they moved to the country with animals and a farm and a step brother who used to abuse her. She then returned to where she was born to live with her grandparents.

This is just a dappling of examples but each one of the people I know have similar stories.. experiences..  that’s why I believe what I do. I think putting these people in different circumstances would have produced a different outcome.

Now.. let’s move on to Gay Marriage and Gay Partnership Rights.

I’m going to flip the script in a few minutes and present an argument that I have yet to hear from any media source, blog, or wherever. But first things first:

Do I believe in gay marriage? No. I do not. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is how it is explained in the dictionary and that is how it is doctrined in the Bible.

Biblically, the purpose of marriage is to procreate. Gay couples can not procreate. They can adopt, foster, surrogate.. but they cannot naturally procreate under the marriage vow.

Okay.. so that’s actually the minor thing, I know none of you could care less whether or not I believe that homosexuality is hard-wired or a “choice” or if I believe in gay marriage.

This is what I am REALLY concerned with.. and this :: if you’re in this situation or know somebody who is in this situation :: you may want to ponder the following:

Right now where I live :: and I know this defiantely because it’s the field in which I work :: health care providers are affording benefits for same sex “significant” others or “partners for life”.  So if you’re two gay men or lesbian woman living together  as “significant” others or “partners for life” , insurance companies will now allow that person to be included in your benefits.


Why wasn’t I able to include Chief on my insurance benefits before we were married? Isn’t that discrimination?.. rather REVERSE discrimination?

Well, some of you would answer:  you could get married!
But suppose I don’t WANT to get married. Suppose it goes against my beliefs to get married? Why can’t common law couples be covered under health insurance benefits?

Who determines when someone is “significant”? What constitutes a “partner for life” when GM#1 finds a “partner for life” every 3 months?

It doesn’t seem fair that HETEROsexual couples are not afforded the same benefits as HOMOsexual couples.

Seems a bit hypocrytical .. don’t you think?

Gay Right groups fight for equality… well, isn’t NOT being able to put your significant other on your health care coverage being equal to the heterosexual populace who also can’t?

I really think that gays are ostrosized because some of them.. groups of them.. organizations of them are so “in your face”. I not asking anyone to hide who they are or to deny who they are for the sake of the populace .. what I am saying is that if THEY didn’t make a big deal out of it, then neither will ANYONE else.

For example, GM#1 has been my friend forever. And we’ve had this discussion many times and he knows that it’s not coming from a place of hate but from a place of “.. would everybody just get over it already”..

At any rate.. GM#1 has a rainbow flag sticker on his car… he has a rainbow flag hanging outside his front door .. he has a pink triangle tattood on his bicep.

One night we were talking about gay hate crimes and I said to him, “… why do you put it out there?” He asked me what I was talking about and I told him that I don’t go around with flags and signs and tattoos advertising that I’m straight.. why would he do that because he’s gay?

He got alittle offended and bounced back with the argument that I have an Italian flag at my house and an Italia thing hanging from my rear view mirror. So if I can be proud to be Italian, why can’t he be proud to be gay?

I told him that the Italian flag and what not is my ethnicity.. my culture.. not my sexuality. It really isn’t anyone’s business what somebody else’s sexuality is but the flag and tattoo, etc. make it people’s business and if you’re going to throw it out there then you better be prepared for it to stick.

He saw my perspective but ultimately it’s his life and he can do whatever he chooses to do.. because in this country.. you still can.

Again, I don’t have a problem with gays and the homosexual life style.. I’m not homophobic.. and not a hate monger.. I just have opinions that don’t mean much to anyone but me.

  1. auroracoda says:

    YAY! I’m the first and obviously the most courageous to post on this particular blog!

    And I shall nooooooooow do so.

    **Note – I’m such a lazy so and so I’m going to copy and paste some of my thoughts from another place…I think you know where ;)

    I believe that Homosexuality is a biological and psychological phenomenon, and that it is possible to be either born to this or to learn it. The reason I have for this belief is that I have studied it in Psychology, Biology, Anthropology and Chemistry. But also because I know that we do not know enough about the human brain to even come to an absolute answer on certain topics…homosexuality being one of them.

    While I respect a church’s right to refuse to marry people upon their own religious beliefs or tenets…I do NOT think it’s right for them to be unable to marry in the eyes of the state.

    To me, marriage is not just about whether or not you can procreate.

    Here is my reasons for that…let’s say you or your love is sterile. You cannot have children “the way God intended”. Does that mean you do not have the right to marry? What if you shouldn’t because carrying a child might be the death of you? (See Steal Magnolia’s) What if you are older when you finally meet “the one” and are past your bodies abilities to create and carry a child? Should you not be allowed to marry?

    In my mind, you can’t pick and choose. It’s either you have a right to marry or you don’t. There is no, well…we should review the case and then decide. But see, in my opinion it’s never been about that. The church does not like homosexuality plain and simple. It scares them. They don’t understand it. They feel it should be a mark of shame. So they banish it to the extent possible. What if they decided that all people with red hair and green eyes were evil? Would they have put new rules on to not allow couples to marry who have those genetic markers and therefore could have children with green eyes and red hair? Did you know that at one point people with these features WERE considered by the church to be witches or warlocks?

    And let’s talk about the bible for just a moment. Let’s take a look at Corinthians 7:1-17. There is so much good stuff in there but I’ll focus on one.

    **And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

    So, let’s say that a husband beats his wife continuously, emotionally and mentally abuses her. Prevents her happiness. As per the bible, she shouldn’t leave him and if she does she should remain faithful to him and never marry again. I’m sorry but…does this strike you as wrong?

    Or what if there is no true physical abuse but a TON of mental? What if the wife is verbally abusive to her husband and their children? What if she fails in her duties as a wife? Makes everyone’s life miserable? Oopps…once again the Bible says for a man to cleave to his wife. However, it also says that a man can take another wife. Uhhhmmm what bullshit is that?

    So here is my take on it. I take the good parts version from the bible…you know, the stuff about being good and honest and living a just life. Treating other’s with kindness and all that jazz. I throw out all the other bullshit about man power and women dirtiness. To me, the Bible was written by a man…inspired by God yes, but still written by a man and man is fallible and God is SO great that man cannot possibly hope to understand him in his entirety.

    So, back to what I was saying. I think that anyone over the legal age of consent should have the right to marry in the eyes of the state in which that person lives. If the church does not wish to marry them, then I respect that. I do not respect the church pushing their beliefs and faith off onto the rest of us and changing our LEGAL rights within these United States.

    And with regards to health care…absolutely I get your point. I also had the frustration of not being married to my ex (he refused to set a date and I refused to leave him because to me…at that point in my life…was breaking a promise). I could not be on his health insurance, even though I had lived with him continuously for more than 5 years, fed him, washed his clothes, cleaned up after him, supported him emotionally, and cared for his family. I couldn’t be on his health insurance, because I was not a man. This to me, is the worst form of discrimination…because it is the reverse of the equality we fight so hard for. Going to one extreme does not negate another. I did agree with what a friend of mine said on this subject…

    “It’s the only workaround that gay rights activists have been able to get into law so that gay couples have some ability to access the same rights afforded to married couples. If gays could marry freely, then those workarounds wouldn’t be necessary. It’s similar to complaining that it’s unfair that the State funds metro-access shuttles for the handicapped and not for the able-bodied. Except that there’s nothing we can to give the handicapped equal ability to access the world – this is just a poor substitute – and it’s very easy indeed to change the law for gay couples so that they have equal access to secular marriage.”

    I have a meeting right now…so need to end this. What do you think? Let’s debate! :)

    • Leese says:

      Oooohhhh… you may have been the first to comment HERE but you should have seen my inbox. In fact, one day when I’m bored and have nothing to do I’ll post all that wacky stuff. Some, pretty scary considering that they were from people who are all into peace, love and happiness boat. Guess they missed the tolerance dock.

      Here’s what I think people miss.. and maybe I was at fault for not introducing this :: once the fingers start going, they’re hard to stop :: is that couples are married by the state. The church stuff is just a rite of denomination. You can stand in front of a man of the cloth but until you get that blood test for syphallis :: I know I didn’t spell that right but it’s late :: and sign on the dotted line after you pay for the license, your marriage is not recognized as legal.

      I have no concern whether or not whatever state passes or does not pass gay marriage. I could give a hoot whether or not any denomination allows or disallows it… because I am not affected by it directly. I just don’t believe that it is right.

      If any one of my gay friends were to legally wed or have a commitment ceremony and I was invited. Of course I would go.. to support them. I have mega love for my friends and would not do anything to harm, hurt or offend them.

      Years ago, there was an HBO movie :: I think it was called If These Walls Could Talk :: that had a vignette starring Vanessa Redgrave. In it, she was living with a woman.. her lover.. for decades. One day, her lover fell off a ladder and died. Because everything was in the lover’s name, she was left with nothing. She was forced to move from her house.. wasn’t entitled to whatever.. and I remember feeling so incredibly sad for her. Shouldn’t she be entitled to… something?

      So now, I’m sitting on my bed typing .. thinking, “.. so am I really FOR gay marriage?”

      This is how my mind works. I have an opinion.. a thought.. a view… and somebody will say something or I’ll read something or in this case, type out my thoughts and go “hmmmm…. ”

      And as I’m sitting here with both sides of my brain working at once “… danger Will Robinson”.. I keep getting this feeling in my chest that no, it isn’t right. This is going to sound like a cop out but can I explain definitively why? No.. right now I can’t. I’m going to have to mull it over a bit but I can tell you that it has nothing to do with my faith.

      I don’t blindly follow the teachings of man… I don’t blindly follow the Bible. I follow me. I know in my gut what is right or wrong for ME. I believe that the Bible is purposefully vague… inspired by God, yes, but at times used as a tool by man to twist and convert passages to suit their own needs.

      You know that I faced the 4 horseman of abuse.. did I stay in that marriage? No. Did I remarry? Yes. What I’m trying to say :: and I really should have waited until more brain cells were active :: is that it’s in your heart. In the Catholic Church, once you are divorced you cannot receive the sacrament of communion. Why? Because they didn’t petition the church and pay 1000.00 for an annulment? And what is an annulment.. ? To me, you’re buying your way in to whatever club is holding court.

      Do I believe that you should only marry in order to procreate? Of course not. I am not able to have children.. I was trying to convey :: obviously without success!! :: that that is what is stated in the Bible.

      It’s 1am and I’m seriously babbling here so I’m going to have to tank out. I’ll go over this tomorrow and see if I can’t present my view without being all over the map!!

  2. Aurora says:

    Oh excellent example! “If These Walls Could Talk” was an excellent piece on the trials and tribulations that women have had to endure over the years. I actually remember more from the first one that I do from the second…I only got to see scene with Ellen and Sharon trying for a baby…but each was equally powerful.

    I remember watching Cher’s character die in the first one and being filled with so much anger and hate. How could a group of people pushing for the life of an unborn fetus be cavalier enough to MURDER someone to prevent it? I was disgusted and appalled at a society which accepts that women will tear themselves apart with a coat hanger because it’s illegal for her to choose what’s to be done with her own body.


    See, all of these things are a big part of why I have such a problem with organized religion. God wanted us to be spiritual, to seek, to learn, to love. I’m fairly certain he didn’t want us to run around judging each other and taking rights away from each other. And I also know that not everyone that follows their own respective religion behaves in the ways I mentioned above.

    Isn’t it funny…it’s human nature to do these heinous things but because we feel guilt over them, we have to place a moralistic name to it to justify it. “I did such and such in the name of GOD.” It kind of ruins it for the rest of us that ARE living by God’s requests. Either ruins it or belittles it.

    But I get what your saying. See, I fully respect your belief that Gay and Lesbian marriage is wrong. Because I’ve also had those conflicting emotions. What I finally had to do was break it down to the root of the issue. And the issue is that it should be illegal to tell two consenting and knowledgeable adults who they can and cannot marry. Whether they be same sex or not. I just think it’s opening the doors for so much more …. well…for more wrong things to happen in the future. And it promotes inequality. It promotes fear. It promotes anger. It is a champion to prejudices.

    I was truly ashamed of my state when we allowed Prop 8 to be passed. I wish you could have been here to hear the tripe we had to listen to. Every morning on my drive into work or in the evening while watching TV, I would listen to advertisements paid for by the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints or from the Roman Catholic Church about how Prop 8 argued that exclusively heterosexual marriage was “an essential institution of society,” that leaving the constitution unchanged would “result in public schools teaching our kids that gay marriage is okay,” and that gays would “redefine marriage for everyone else.” One of the biggest proponents of Prop 8 was a gentlemen who mother is African American and father is White. I always felt like asking him whether he knew that at one time in the past it was illegal for his parents to marry. I always wanted to say…. “You mean like when Black people and White people were finally allowed to marry? They said the same thing then…that it would redefine marriage for everyone else and that it would be teaching the little children that it’s ok to intermingle. So tell me…should your parents have been allowed? Did it teach you to intermingle???”

    This stance also reminded me of when I was in Junior High and they were battling over what to teach us in Sexual Education. The local churches and school board was pushing that we only be taught anatomy and abstinence. The teachers, parents, students and city representatives were pushing that we learn that and much more. It wasn’t until several years after my seventh grade class had moved on that they started teaching the “more”. Which meant that they were teaching how to protect yourself against STD’s, pregnancy, the problems and complications for your health and financial well being should you become pregnant too early, responsibility of family hood, the intricacies around the female reproduction system. All of the things that I think could have saved a whole wave of abortions and unwanted births in my town…if they had allowed it to be taught earlier. And why didn’t they allow it? Because if they did, we might have sex more often. If we understood it or learned about it, we might be more willing and less scared to do it. If we know about something, it makes it less scary and more acceptable. So, in my opinion, they are applying the same ideology to Homosexuality.

    Opponents to Prop 8 argued that “the freedom to marry is fundamental to our society,” that the California constitution “should guarantee the same freedom and rights to everyone” and that the proposition “mandates one set of rules for gay and lesbian couples and another set for everyone else.” They also argued that “equality under the law is a fundamental constitutional guarantee”. This is a great and wonderful ideal…but unfortunately, not enough people stood up and said “Wait a doggone minute here folks…this isn’t FAIR” and voted against it.

    There is so much more I want to say on this….and I know I can be far more eloquent than I’m being right now…but writing through a haze of neck and back pain sucks ass. :) So, I’ll write more later. lol

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